This is where it all started for me way back in 2001 when I discovered FME at Alex's web Hovel. I stumbled across it quite by accident whilst looking for a wavetable emulator for midi files.
I thought it would be a good idea for those people who weren't around at the time to have a look and see what the scene was like in its early days. Everything was new and fresh back then and enthusiasm was high, you can tell that just by Alex's writing. Its just a shame that things worked out the way they did.
Thanks to Alex for making this available. There are a few dead links but most work, well the ones that matter anyway.
Click HERE (http://dadsfme.com/hovel) to access the Hovel
I love browsing the Hovel, when I also by chance found his site I was hooked immediately.
We had some passionate people back then. Take away the heart of something and it simply fades away over time.
Alex was extremely passionate about fme, you need people like that around a scene like this, nice bloke. Alex also had an amazing presence, we just don't have that on any forums any longer.
J
Awesome, Alex should have been born in the 60s all the shit he was on lol - allegedly..... ;)
The Hovel was also my first port of call when I started FME all those years ago now...
...I loved his psychedelic escapades - he's so tame on Facebook nowadays since he 'manned' up - you wouldn't think it was him! :P lol
Back when they were released one a day and tutton was nowhere to be seen
He did release layouts back then under Fruitworks I'm pretty certain.
J
Quote from: re-emulated on Jul 27, 2015, 04:17 PMHe did release layouts back then under Fruitworks I'm pretty certain.
J
He was 'controlled' tho
Not read much of it yet but I see the enfusiasum (not spelt correctly I know lol) as already said something lacking in today's fme, but i suppose it can't be helped if there's nowt much left to do at the moment.
Quote from: vectra666 on Jul 27, 2015, 06:34 PMbut i suppose it can't be helped if there's nowt much left to do at the moment.
There's plenty left to do lad...
...it's just that we haven't any of the emulators that can run the techs we have all the resources for!
It would be like a spring uncoiling ( or someone having an orgasm for the first time ;) ) if we got a new emulator with multiple techs that we haven't yet got to play - there's resources galore for many unemulated techs!
It's just that we're stuck in the MPU4/Impact era loop - that we had and more or less covered well over a decade ago... and there lies the rub! ;)
Quote from: Daryl on Jul 27, 2015, 08:04 PMQuote from: vectra666 on Jul 27, 2015, 06:34 PMbut i suppose it can't be helped if there's nowt much left to do at the moment.
There's plenty left to do lad...
...it's just that we haven't any of the emulators that can run the techs we have all the resources for!
It would be like a spring uncoiling ( or someone having an orgasm for the first time ;) ) if we got a new emulator with multiple techs that we haven't yet got to play - there's resources galore for many unemulated techs!
It's just that we're stuck in the MPU4/Impact era loop - that we had and more or less covered well over a decade ago... and there lies the rub! ;)
I think the term you are looking for is reinventing the wheel.
Happy days.
25th August, 2001 - (nothing has changed 14 years on, and I quote).
Well then people, it doesn't look like we're going to be seeing MPU3/4 dev tools released into the public domain in the near future, if at all.
The ultimate problem with MPU3/4 as it stands is that it is not an open-source project. MPU3/4 is written in Delphi, and it is not possible to reverse engineer an .exe into source code. The latest version of MPU3/4 in circulation with Design & Debugging still present (although disabled) is V5.9. It would be possible to create accurate RES files for any Barcrest MPU3 or MPU4 ROMs with a hacked 5.9 (that's what was used for Viva Espana DX), but as Gary points out in his readme, it would be of little use for Empire games. Moreover, as we now know, if a hacked V5.9 appears, there will be no further development of MPU3/4.
Of course, Chris, MPU3/4's author, is perfectly within his rights to do, or not do, whatever he wishes with his own work. The truth of the matter is that he has continued to work on MPU3/4 following its public release, and that he is continuing to do so. It is worth remembering that he could just have easily refused to do any more work on MPU3/4, there'd be no V6.0, no V6.5, and no upcoming release for a version that works properly with Empire ROMs. I'm sure I am not the only person who has been frustrated by his low profile, and lack of comment, but again, this is his decision, and one that he is entitled to make.
Against this backdrop, is it worth releasing a hacked V5.9? Probably not. It would be diametrically opposed to Chris' wishes, his thoughts on the matter are clear, I am not prepared to effectively stick two fingers up to him and release a hacked 5.9, whatever my personal feelings on the subject are. Besides which, releasing a hacked 5.9, which does now exist, would kill MPU3/4 development stone dead. MPU3/4 does need further development, a hacked 5.9 comes out, development stops.
It would appear that patience is going to be required here, we're simply going to have to wait and see how things pan out. The Empire games that will be released with a new version of MPU3/4 are worth waiting for. New Barcrest ROMs will turn up in time (I should be able to dump a reasonable crop of Barcrest MPU4 based machine ROMs soon thanks to a local operator), and they'll be implemented in due course.
I personally feel that we're in something of a "gun to the head" scenario here. There are far too many threats of consequences, petty warnings and unnecessary posturing. I am not convinced that the reasons given for some of the decisions taken stand up to any sort of scrutiny, if indeed they stand up at all. This is not an ideal situation for a burgeoning emulation scene to find itself in, and it's certainly not conducive to an open, inclusive community.
Having said that, I don't want to see the fruit machine emulation scene descend into back-biting and mudslinging, this would benefit no one, and achieve nothing. It's not a perfect situation, but it's the situation we've got, and we'll have to run with it. As an old Swiss Army Manual advises:
Did enjoy the Hovel though, joining the old msn group, spurred on from the old FM mailing list, and talking to Alex is what got me into FME.
NQ.
Yes back when Empire games supported us to a point then we bent them over ans fucked them in the name of fame if we kept those layouts under the counter we'd have been fine.
I think we can sum this up thusly fme tells fme coder what they need and he gives us a rubber chicken with dimmed lamps.
Well fuck me with a ragmans trumpet we are back where we were 14 years ago any wonder fme is dying when there are 1000s of romsets for techs we don't have and we are fucking about with impact and mpu34 guitar take note you need to listen for once.
LOL I'm sure Dad posted this for peoples enjoyment, it was a great time for fme. But FFS, fme has had it's time in the spotlight, no-one is to blame really, especially not the people that created Empire layouts surely?
J
Quote from: altharic on Jul 27, 2015, 08:10 PMI think the term you are looking for is reinventing the wheel.
I think the term you are looking for is doing it properly.
How many complete techs are there in MFME? Pretty much every tech has games that do not run, or some element of the machine isn't quite right (sound normally).
Whilst I have been going over techs again which have had for ages, I've also been trying to get the non-runners working, improving the emulation.
You talk about the 1000's of roms for unemulated techs, but you never mention the roms we have for MPU4 that no-one has done anything with. MPU4 BWB, & Crystal games for a start, plus some Coinworld games too. (some Coinworld games still have issues with the CHR to be fair). Then there's a few QPS games that needed the 8 way bank switch, which is now fully emulated. Plus the Prize Vend mechs, allowing even more games to run, proper hopper setups allowing MDM's Body Match to run.
Then there's the dimmed lamps, the twin sound bankswitch and echo on the OKI chip. And finally the online experience, recreating machines as they would have been played in the wild.
In total I believe there are around 100 games playable on MPU4 in Amber, that aren't playable in MFME, or do not play correctly.
The other thing you seem to be missing is that there is a logical progression. I've been planning MPU4 video for a while, so with MPU4 using the 6809 CPU, IMPACT using the 68000 CPU, and MPU4 Video using both of those CPU's together, it made sense to redo them. MPU4 Plasma DMD also uses both CPU's in conjunction.
Then once I have that working, adding the extra bits to the 68000 core will allow for MPU5 & Scorp4. Which guess what, have a large number of ROMs that do not run for whatever reason. And MPU5 needs dimmed lamps too, the real hardware was designed to use dimmed lamps (Whereas MPU4 could do it by using the hardware in ways it wasn't designed for, but was capable of).
Remembering that I am a self taught programmer, it makes sense to start with the old (and simple) and work towards the new (and more complex). I'm getting to the good stuff, have some patience. I took on the job because no-one else would, was I the best person, probably not. But at the end of the day it's not as if anyone else has turned up and taken over.
And can someone please remember the BFM SYSTEM83 was a BRAND NEW, UNEMULATED tech in FME land.
It's taken a long time, and I can sense your frustration, but I am listening. There's a structure to how things need to happen. IMPACT is the first tech in Amber2, i.e. the simple test tech for testing the completely new front end. MPU4 isn't even in yet, though the dll can be hooked up very quickly when the time comes.
The best is yet to come. I am concentrating on the new front end and the edit tools. Once they work I'll start putting new techs in.
Back then when FME was real!
I still chat to choppers to this day, in between his bouts of getting arseholed on cheap wine the poof ;)
I remember pre Hovel, and I don't mean the MSN forums or the old FM email mailing list, I mean Alex'es webpage which was called "Eye on The Isle Of Man". This was where he first put up roms/layouts and version 5.9 (?) of MPU34 emu.
Happy days.
NQ.
Quote from: niallquinn on Aug 10, 2015, 09:04 AMI remember pre Hovel, and I don't mean the MSN forums or the old FM email mailing list, I mean Alex'es webpage which was called "Eye on The Isle Of Man". This was where he first put up roms/layouts and version 5.9 (?) of MPU34 emu.
Happy days.
NQ.
Didn't he release JPeMu2 on there as well - with the restrictions removed as his final shot before closing the Hovel?
I'm sure he did - but, like I am - it's a little foggy! ;) lol
Quote from: Daryl on Aug 10, 2015, 02:33 PMQuote from: niallquinn on Aug 10, 2015, 09:04 AMI remember pre Hovel, and I don't mean the MSN forums or the old FM email mailing list, I mean Alex'es webpage which was called "Eye on The Isle Of Man". This was where he first put up roms/layouts and version 5.9 (?) of MPU34 emu.
Happy days.
NQ.
Didn't he release JPeMu2 on there as well - with the restrictions removed as his final shot before closing the Hovel?
I'm sure he did - but, like I am - it's a little foggy! ;) lol
foggy?
Weren't you in Last of the Summer Wine?
:)
NQ.
Go further back than the current forums, thanks to Alex saving the post from the MSN Communities. http://dadsfme.co.uk/hovel/The%20Hovel/index.html
Unzip the file [attach name=msnarchive.zip type=application/zip]2726[/attach]
and then you'll need something to view the files I'm currently using https://gallery.technet.microsoft.com/office/free-dbx-file-viewer-online-50dc2a82
With the dbx viewer open, click add file, then process.
You'll then get this
[attach name=MSN.png type=image/png]2727[/attach]
I see my first post was 14th August 2001, I would have been 31 when I discovered FME.
Quote from: wearecity on Feb 20, 2018, 04:55 PMGo further back than the current forums, thanks to Alex saving the post from the MSN Communities. http://dadsfme.co.uk/hovel/The%20Hovel/index.html
Unzip the file [attach name=msnarchive.zip type=application/zip]2726[/attach]
and then you'll need something to view the files I'm currently using https://gallery.technet.microsoft.com/office/free-dbx-file-viewer-online-50dc2a82
With the dbx viewer open, click add file, then process.
You'll then get this
[attach name=MSN.png type=image/png]2727[/attach]
I see my first post was 14th August 2001, I would have been 31 when I discovered FME.
Brilliant.
Wow, look at the names of those no longer around. In both senses of the term. Quite sad.
NQ.
I've got half way through them, going to read the rest later tonight. So far been a great few hours read. I still remember writing some of my posts, particularly about being on holiday and can't wait until I got back to play FME. As sad as it was, I remember thinking, I'd be happy to be going home tomorrow, to be able to play everything released. FME, was genuinely as exciting as going on holiday, no more exciting. As Degsy said on his fme history video, I played nothing else, for weeks and weeks and weeks, after discovering it.
I guess it's not the absolutely day 1 of FME, but unless we see any talk pre the first non freeware MPU3/4 emulator release and the initial layout creation for it, it's as close as we are going to get.
As for people no longer around, it's been good to see a few people returning to FME in the past couple of weeks, but yes although I'm not in the know about these things, I do believe some have left us for the great arcade in the sky.
Hi Dad
Just letting you know the hovel link does not work now as its still pointing to the old .co.uk domain when you have a mo you might want to have a look at this
Quote from: cliffc on Aug 06, 2019, 06:09 PMHi Dad
Just letting you know the hovel link does not work now as its still pointing to the old .co.uk domain when you have a mo you might want to have a look at this
Thanks for that, I've updated the link :)